From Anthony Edwards (The Arm-chair Pilot) Nickersons, High Street, Barton, Cambridge, CB3 7BG
The obituary of Wolfgang Späte (Summer 1997 News) says that in the 1937 World Gliding Championships Späte used the first "Optimum Speed to fly between thermals calculator" What is the source of this information?
In my Sailplane & Gliding article (June-July 1980) Why does the Best-Speed-to-Fly construction work (with a little history thrown in) I was unable to give any information about the pre-war history, but subsequent correspondence with the late Helmuth Reichmann led me to articles in the German and Polish languages which I do not read. However, my notes from friends' readings of them tell me that in Späte's 1938 article he "Finds best speed to Fly graphically, plotting average speed v glide speed for various rates of climb. No sink between thermals" from which I conclude that his calculator did not allow for sink between thermals.
Reichmann told me that Späte told him in 1975 that Professor Scheubel of the DFS (Darmstadt) possessed the tangent-construction in 1937. The researches I reported in my S&G article revealed that the earliest solutions to the best-speed-to-fly problem which included the sink between thermals were published in S&G in 1947. I should be very interested to hear from our German and Polish readers of any evidence for a pre-war solution, which was certainly not available in Great Britain until 1947. I can supply references to the articles known to me, and in some cases xerox copies.
Chris Wills replies with details translated by himself from an article written by Wolfgang
Späte in Aerokurier April 1970 . Page 253.
" it is right that I was the first, already in 1937, to give some thought to optimum speeds to fly between thermals for sailplanes doing cross countries. During my first Semester at the Darmstadt Technical Highschool, encouraged by Professor Scheubel, I gave some scientific thought to the problem.The 1938 Rhön Contest finally gave me occasion to try out my theory in practice. Swiss glider pilots later gave me the honour of being the first foreigner to use the theory, but Paul McCready refined it, predicting the improved sailplane performances of the postwar era. It is vital for the cross country flying of today's fibreglass sailplanes and McCready has received much credit for this. .
Perhaps it is of interest for me to describe to you my first experiences using the theory and how my situation was at that time.
I had officially entered the 1938 Rhön Contest with a REIHER 2, but I had to settle for the previous year's REIHER 1. This had had 90 kgs ( 198 lbs) added to its weight to strengthen its main spars. Thus, due to its increased weight, its polar curve had slipped considerably to the right. In other words, its minimum speed was somewhere between 75-80 kph. When lift was discovered of over 2 metres/sec, the bird would really move when getting to the next lift. All other gliders in the contest fell behind. I was able to win the 19th Rhön Contest, although on the first two days, I was unable to stay up due to feeble lift.
From the 3rd Contest day, the temperature gradient, especially at altitude, became more and more stable and regularly during the afternoons, fine cumulo nimbi started to build. Under these, I was able to turn my heavy ship in large diameter circles, centred in lift of between 3 to 4 metres per sec. As there was no controlled airspace at that time, one was able to climb blind in cloud. I decided to take my machine in to cloud in 5-6 m/sec lift and stayed with it until I felt I had begun to lose its centre I then straightened out on course and, as soon as I had left the cloud, I would steer towards the next cumulus at 150 kph. Reaching the highest cumulus, I would enter it at its side.By doing this, I could more simply discover the best area of lift. I have to say that I had been practising this earlier in the year while research flying for DFS. Two of the other competitors, (Bräutigäm and Kraft) by chance observed me carrying on like this and asked, shaking their heads, if I had gone crazy to throw away my height like this...150 kph at that time was usual for glider pilots who wished to start loops... not for pilots doing cross countries. How things have changed since then! Of course, during the contest, I did not let my secret out. Only when I was in the air after a bungee launch, did I take out the small table from a pocket in my flying suit, to stick it firmly somewhere on the instrument panel. After a landing, I would hide the card again. Only when I was securely in first place in the contest's points, did I let my secret be known. But no one wished to believe me. Seff Kunz, I remember him still now...smiled sympathetically and said finally, when I had some quiet..."You can write out a report on it ". That, I did, and I put it together with an application for the Günther Grönhoff Memorial Prize, which was awarded each year for a cross country flight which had special scientific meaning. (I had, during the contest, made a goal flight of over 320 kms from the Wasserkuppe to Freiburg im Breisgau and I thought that this would give me a chance of winning it). In 1934, Peter Riedel had won it. In 1935, I won it for the first time (for distance flying and a thesis on cloud streets) In 1936 and 1937, it was not awarded. Should I win it for the second time, I would have to advertise it loudly. The Cup was of heavy silver and contained two bottles of Sekt, This would have allowed the occasion to be adequately celebrated with my team. My submission did not succeed. The cup was not awarded and it remained in the Grossruckerswald Gliding School. At last, after 34 years, I have been recognised for having been the first to have produced a Best-Speed-to fly table given the strength of the lift. One must only manage to live long enough to receive proper recognition. Many thanks, dear Max Haubenhofer! So long as he is around, something serious will come out of the joy of gliding."
C.Wills hopes that his translation is adequate and apologizes to Anthony Edwards that we are no nearer to deciding whether Wolfgang Späte's theory takes sinking air between thermals in to account. CW thinks that it was the first time that the Göttingen 549 wing profile would be efficient at far higher speeds than was previously thought. The Russians had discovered this also when their GN-7 sailplane flew 539 kms, 602 kms and 652 kms between the 5th and 27th of May 1937. The pilot was Rastorguev and the GN-7's wing profiles were Göttingen 549 and its wing loading was 23.8 kgs/sq. metre. (4.879 lbs /sq.ft). After 1951, the Germans were cautious about using the new laminar flow profiles, due to doubtful stall characteristics. The Mustang fighter, if stalled, would lose at least 8,000 ft. It had a laminar flow wing profile. There were also the "adventures" they had had with the Horten 4b in 1944. Therefore in 1951, the Germans used their well tried Göttingen profiles with higher wing loadings than were common before the war, for their Condor and Kranich 3 and the Austrians used them for their Mg 19s. It would be interesting to compare performances of these aircraft with those of the Slingsby Skylark, Eagle, and the German Ka-6.
From Arthur Cleaver, Dyffryn Ardudwy, Gwynedd, LL44 2EP Wales.
How on earth did you get that photo of the Camel 2? We started on the Camel 2 in, I think, 1952. Originally there was Mike Eacock, Peter Parker and myself. We made most of the wing ribs and the fuselage frames. Mike made most of the metal fittings and he obtained the scrap Venom hood and cut out the inner shell. Frank Allen joined us for a while and the fuselage was erected to the state shown in the photo. Then Frank got married, as did Mike. Then Mike emigrated to the States and the Camel went into hibernation.
In 1957 I went to work at Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft and took the Camel with me and found myself living next door to Laurie Watts of the Coventry Club. Laurie, the late Bill Woodhams and I formed a new syndicate. Laurie made a super job of moulding the Venom canopy to fit using fibreglass. Bill built the tailplane and we virtually finished the fuselage complete with retracting skid and motor cycle rear suspension as shock absorbers.
However, family ties got in the way and work ground to a halt. For years the fuselage was suspended in the roof of my garage.
In 1965, AWA closed and I had to move north. I had dropped out of gliding in 1959 so wasn't interested in taking it with me. I gave all the bits to the local ATC Squadron, for them to make what they would of it. I expect that it finished up on a November 5th Bonfire.
I look forward to receiving my copy of VGC News, I think you all
do a very good job of it.
From Raul Blacksten by email, raulb@earthlink.net
I have just received the VGC News No 93 today and have been reading the article "Classifying vintage gliders" by Jan Förster. I find it one of the most brilliantly convoluted systems I have ever seen. Very complicated. I would like to suggest something like the current VSA system of classification and based on the nameplate, (date of manufacture) rather than date of design or first flights.
1901-45 = Antique
1946-58 = Vintage (the end date changes but I do not recall the formula)
1959-73 = Classic (ie at least 25 years old)
For example, a Schweizer 1-26B, built in 1956 would be vintage, but a 1-26B built in 1960 would be a Classic. Yet a 1-26E built in 1982 would not be admissable.
To me this system, which is based on the old VGC system, is a much simpler classification system and not dependent upon so much calculation and rarity. Not only that, but (and I do not know that this would happen) a glider will not be reclassified just because several people suddenly decided to make several of the same glider airworthy, or because several airworthy examples are parked and let go out of annual (C of A Ed)
To me, a vintage glider would be a vintage glider if there is one airworthy example or a thousand (ie the Blanik) Just because a glider is not rare should not make a difference in its classification, in my opinion. If you do not want a particular glider type (ie Phoenix) to be considered Vintage along with, say, the Prefect, make another category, ie Vintage Glass.
I believe in the old adage, KISS, or Keep It Simple Stupid. The more complicated you make something, the more trouble you will have with it. Well, that is my 2 cents worth.
Wishing you Green Air, Raul.
From: Glyn Fonteneau <glyn.f@psionworld.net>
Date: 29 March 1998 12:36
Subject: Scale Model Gliders
I was most interested to be shown a copy of The VGC News No 93 Spring 1998.
You appear to want modellers to join the VGC. I was a member of the VGC for some years and apart from Chris Wills and Francis Russell was made far from welcome at VGC rallies and events. I have long felt that modellers, as you say, may give the only opportunity to see some gliders in the air We are also quite resourceful in gaining drawings, plans and photographic evidence with which to have our creations judged. It does seem to me that because of some past prejudice the VGC has lost a vast resource of data. However I welcome your new initiative and will consider rejoining.
It is interesting to note the front cover with the Rhönsperber almost complete and then comparing this with the 3 view on page 36. The newly constructed version appears to have considerably more dihedral than the 3 view shows and certainly much more than on Francis Russell's Rhönsperber.
Just for information I have designed and built the following Vintage gliders, all to 1/4 scale:
Rhönsperber, Sperberjunior, Short Nimbus, Max Holste 20p
These are all scratch built and I carried out the research for them, they typically took 12 months each to build ( the Nimbus took 24 months).
It might be of interest to the VGC that I have factory drawings of the Nimbus fuselage.
I hope the above is of interest to the VGC and hope that you can persuade modellers to rejoin the VGC and make them more welcome.
Regards
Glyn Fonteneau
PS
I am currently drawing up the SZD 20 "Wampir 2" flying wing.
Ian Dunkley's reply:-
I will forward a copy of your email to VGC News as I think it is important. You would be most welcome at Rallies, Why not try Camphill at the end of May. I am organizing it.
The only problem I can see in general is that you could not fly your gliders at the same time as us, that means early mornings, evenings or in bad weather. Was that the problem before?
Models have been flown in the evenings at a number of International rallies, plus a number in the UK, inc Camphill.
Yes please join
Ian
From Massimiliano Sacchi email lams@regolo.cbi.polimi.it
Please, have you any documentation about the Sant Ambrogio Italian glider?
I know that it was built near 1930 by a young engineer, I have a 3 view design and some technical data, but nothing else.
Have you something different about this plane? Some photos? Information about materials, colors or other?
Thanks for your attention
Max Sacchi
From GABOR CZEINER from Szombathely on 25-3-98, concerning Laszlo Almasy who was portrayed in the film The English Patient, in answer to C.Wills's request for information on page 44 of VGC News No. 93.
It was Laszlo Almasy who imported into Egypt the sailplane M.22 Turul, in which Group Captain Edward Mole flew 147 consecutive loops in 1938.
Gabor has much information concerning this great Hungarian explorer and pilot ,who spent much time in Szombathely. Unfortunately it is all in Hungarian. Above all, Laszlo Almasy did not die in 1944 in Italy, but in 1951 in Salzburg, Austria, where his grave is."
CW thanks Gabor for this information and wonders from where our film industry gets its stories for the entertainment of the masses. Of course, there may have been something true in the film.
A further letter came from Czeiner Gabor dated:- 11th April 1998.
"I am sending you more data on Almasy Laszlo. I hope that you can use it.
1/.Almasy was born in 1895 in Borostyanko (Today: Bernstein, Austria.)
2/.In August 1938, the Hungarian Aero Association sold an M.22 to the Egyptian Aero Club. via Almasy. (The Egyptian Aero Club already had a Göppingen 1 Wolf. CW).
3/. In September 1938, Fred Hefty (Junior), was winch launched by Almasy Laszlo for his "A" Certificate. (32 seconds).
4/. On the 8th of June 1940, two M.24s (Hungarian 2 seater aeroplanes) registered HA-BAA and HA-BAB, were sold to the Egyptian King Farouk. One of the pilots was Laszlo Tasnadi (who later gained the first Gold C 300 kms over Hungarian territory flying an M.22 in 1941. ( 315.kms Budapest- Banffahunyad) . On 17th May 1942, he gained his Gold C 3,000 metre height (3770 metres) also in an M.22 CW).
Other pilots were Laszlo Vadas, Count Imre Andrassy, and Lajos Roczko.
5/. In 1940, a Committee was set up to search for suitable areas for gliding in Transylvania (Erdely). Members of the Committee were Kamill Bogyay, the gliding scoutmaster of the town of Szentes, Laszlo Almasy, Supervisor of the Hungarian Aero Association. His deputy directors were Laszlo Kertesz, Fred Hefty (senior) and Laszlo Tasnadi, President of ERMES (Aero Club of the Technical University of Budapest.)
6/. In 1927, Almasy applied for permission to build a garage in Szombately. (all information is from the archives and has been diligently researched for us by Gabor Czeiner, Pazmany Krt 9, Szombately.H-9700. We thank him very much for his efforts CW).
Almasy was discharged from the German Army after El Alamein in the Autumn of 1942, where upon, he returned to Hungary. It is likely that he participated, as an expert on Africa, in the DORA operation in 1942-44, which involved the transport of secret material by the Germans to Fort Lamy, in Chad, using captured B-17 "Flying Fortresses." From 1944 through March 28th, 1945, he stayed at Szeleszte Castle in the transdanubian region of Hungary. The Russians occupied this region at that time, but he was protected by British documents..
Next, he went to Budapest, where he was arrested by the Russians, but released. In 1946, the Hungarian authorities arrested him, but he was not deemed to be a war criminal and so he was released again. He proceeded to Austria next, but not to his birth place, Berstein (Borostyankö in Hungarian), because that was under Russian occupation, but to Salzburg instead.
From Salzburg, he went to Cairo, where he was a representative of the Porsche factory when they experimented with a new amphibious vehicle in the desert.
In 1949, he participated in a long distance glider aerotow on the Paris-Rome-Tripoli-Cairo route. We know little about this in Hungary. It would merit further research.
In June 1950, he was treated for dysentry in Salzburg, but he returned to Cairo. He was named Director of the Egyptian Desert Institute effective as from March 1st 1951. He was unable to take up this post however, because he was hospitalized again in the February of that year. He was operated on for liver cancer at the Salzburg Wehrle Sanatorium and he died on March 22nd, 1951.
He is buried at Salzburg. Hungarian Glider pilots dedicated his new tombstone in November 1994 .
That is all I can tell you on this subject. Good flying, until we meet in Slovakia" Revi Laszlo.
C.W. explains that the Sonderkommando DORA was involved in dramatic operations far within Africa during the period 1942-44. The last of these operations was undertaken by the top secret and legendary KG200. This started with the aerotowing of an Me 108 Taifun by an He 111 from Greece into Africa, at low level over the Mediterranean to avoid the enemy radar etc. They would have liked to have used a Storch but it did not have enough range. Over the African coast, the combination gained height. At a certain point, well inside Africa, the ME 108 released its cable and its engine was successfully started. The two Luftwaffe airmen then flew on into Africa, where there were thought to be sandy flats, suitable for B-17 to take off and land. The pans were found, and a successful, very careful landing was accomplished. An airstrip was marked out and B-17s started to arrive with supplies etc. Then another airstrip was established, followed by a 3rd one, not far from the West African Coast. It was intended to plant German agents in Sierra Leone, Monrovia and Durban to report on Allied shipping movements. Two German agents finally gave themselves away in Monrovia by having German cigarettes. They were first observed, then followed and arrested and "persuaded " to reveal everything they knew. The British "staked out" the airstrips and waited for the next B-17 arrival. This happened, but the B-17 pilot was suspicious when he saw that a stores' hut had been burnt out. After landing, the B-17 was greeted with a hail of machine gun fire. The pilot was able to take off and to fly his badly damaged B.17 back to Greece for a successful emergency landing. Oberst (Colonel) WERNER BAUMBACH, the Kommodore of KG 200, was killed flying an Avro Lancaster in the Argentine on the 20th October 1953.
He had emigrated there with his family, with full Allied permission, after 1945.
From Grp Cptn Mole's book "Happy Landings",Page 95:- While stationed at Aboukir from late 1936, I frequently flew up to Cairo for weekends, and there I discovered a Gliding School newly formed as an offshoot of the Royal Aero Club of Egypt. I made contact with their chief instructor, Count L.E.d'Almasy., a most charming Hungarian, who welcomed me as an enthusiastic glider pilot, and invited me to take an active part in the School's operation. D'Almasy was a very keen pilot, who had flown in the German Airforce during the First World War, during which he was reputed to have shot down the British Ace, Alan Gerrard VC. The School operated in the flat desert just outside Almaza Airport, and was equipped with several primary gliders used for training the Egyptian students who were intensely keen and quick to learn. These gliders were launched by the usual shock cord method, or by winch and cable, and flights of up to 2 minutes were carried out. The school had also a German secondary sailplane, a Göppingen 1"WOLF, but as no hill slopes were available, this was unable to maintain soaring flight and the chances of finding thermal currents during short flights at low altitude were remote.
I obtained permission from my CO at Aboukir to use an Avro Tutor for aerotowing the Wolf and fitted a bomb release hook on to its tail skid, operated by a toggle in its cockpit. We used a standard RAF target- towing cable and carried out many aerotows from outside Almaza Airport. Now at last, Almasy and I were able to search for, and locate, thermal currents and achieve soaring flight. The Wolf was not a high performance sailplane and we made no oustanding flights with it, although on one occasion, Almasi flew 7 miles across Cairo landing by the Pyramids, and I flew it back again.... One day I was sent for by the British Security Police, who questioned me closely about Almasy. They told me that he was the leading Nazi agent in Egypt and they were suspicious about his frequent flights in to the Western Desert. They wanted me to report any discussions we might have that might throw light on these activities. "... "I knew that Almasy had a virulant hatred of communists..." "and this was understandable as his estates in Hungary had been siezed after WW 1 by Bela Kun, the Communist dictator.." I had no sympathy for his extreme political views, but we were fellow pilots and both keen gliding enthusiasts, and I liked him immensely. He never gave me any indication of Nazi activities, but I believe, later on in WW 2, he did serve on Rommel's Staff in the Western Desert campaign".
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE M.22 "TURUL?" "Late in 1937, the Gliding School bought a new M 22, which had been designed and built by the students of the Budapest Technical College. The Gliding School named it "Turul"- Arabic for that mythical bird- the Roc. It was really a superb machine... gulled winged and beautifully streamlined, rather similar to the German Minimoa. It was stressed for full aerobatics and handled delightfully in flight." ("Turul" is also a Hungarian mythical bird, which is often portrayed as an Eagle. The word is Turkish .CW)
"By now I was stationed with the RAF Training School at Abu
Sueir, about 70 miles out in the desert from Cairo, where in February
1938, an Air display was planned to celebrate the end of term.
The Gliding School kindly offered to lend me "Turul"
to demonstrate at the School and I arranged for an aerotow over
to Abu Sueir. On arrival. I was somewhat disturbed to learn that
some of our flying instructors were complaining about a glider
being included in their display programme. Consequently, I wanted
to bring off a manoeuvre in "Turul" that they could
not emulate. I decided on an outside (or inverted) loop, which
none of the instructors had ever done, and which their aircraft
could not have achieved". Group Captain Mole did manage to
get "Turul" to do this, after he had had some practise,
by increasing its speed at the bottom of the loop to 160 kph just
to carry on upwards and so complete the loop. The flying display
was attended by Laszlo Almasy and H.E. Mohammed Taher Pasha, through
whose generosity "Turul" had been loaned for the demonstration.
Among various aerobatics, I achieved another outside loop, which
greatly impressed our flying instructors, one of whom filmed it
for the record. I later realized that this manoeuvre was entirely
wasted on the spectators, the majority of whom could not differentiate
between an outside loop in a glider and an ordinary one, and were
quite unimpressed by the feat. After the display, Mohammed Taher
Pasa asked me if I would like to keep "Turul" at Abu
Sueir on temporary loan as they had insufficient hangar space
for it at the Gliding School and none of their pupils were qualified
yet to fly it. My RAF CO did allow me to keep it in a hangar at
Abu Sueir and to fly it, providing I did not land it out because
of the difficulty of retrieving it. He did fly it but found the
desert thermals disappointing. They were very rough and seemed
to consist of irregular series of sudden Ups and Downs rather
than properly developed thermals.The Station CO allowed him the
use of an Avro Tutor for aerotows whenever he needed one, and
he had an orgy of delightful soaring. On the 12th April 1938,
he achieved 147 loops in "Turul" after being aerotowed
to 15,400 ft by a Hawker Audax. This was its ceiling towing a
glider in the prevailing conditions. The flight of continuous
looping lasted 25 minutes and, despite being disorientated by
the continuous looping, he managed to make a safe landing in the
desert. Because of a fatal accident at the Gliding School all
gliding in Egypt was stopped. Poor "Turul" was left
at the back of the hangar for months and deteriorated, lying dusty
and neglected. With the heat of the Egyptian summer, wrinkles
appeared in her skin and her graceful curves began to lose symmetry
and shape. He had shared so much with her, and she had never let
him down. He had real affection for her and wondered whether she
would ever fly again. In the Summer of 1938, he was selected for
a course at the RAF Staff College at Andover and thus, he had
to leave Egypt and "Turul" in October, after two very
happy years there. In his book "Happy Landings", Edward
Mole refers to Almasy Laszlo as Count d'Almasy. Louis Rotter confirms
that Almasy was a Count and that there was no substance in the
film "The English Patient" beyond that Count Almasy
was an explorer in Africa, liked aviation, drove those kinds of
vehicles and did assist the Germans, but Hungary was on the German
side at that time.
From Peter Selinger, Stuttgart-Sillenbuch,Germany. 28th March 1998.
Concerning VGC News No.93 ,on Page 43, "Wanted". You published a Note from the OSC President, Mr Karl-Heinz Kellermann, Frankfurt, Germany.
The content of these 5 lines has prompted me to reply, because I know that the OSC has a really complete set of drawings for the Reiher, with all details and views drawn to up to 1/1 size..
Also, it is well known to the oldtimer community that previously, as there was no complete set of drawings available, it would have been impossible to build a new Reihe within the requirements of the contemporary C of A, and thus to be able to fly it. Now, it is all available, completely redesigned and redrawn, thanks to the tremendous efforts of Siegfried Lorenz , in many hundreds of hours of very hard work, apart from his official profession. In my eyes, this note is an insult to Siegfried Lorenz, because they don't need anything more to build the Reiher, especially if you know that this wonderful (and difficult to build) sailplane will be mainly built by Josef Kurz of the OSC, with his very great experience in rebuilding Oldtimers. I hope that you will publish this letter in the next issue of VGC News Yours sincerely",
Peter Selinger
CW replies. He believes that at one time, the OSC did ask for photographs.We were not wishing to cause offence and we believe that every little bit of information will help in the building of this magnificent machine, and that photographs, if they were of little other help, might inspire the re-creators of this beautiful sailplane.
From Peter Selinger dated 2nd April 1998.
Re- the VGC NEWS No.93 concerning production of KRANICH 2 sailplanes in the Czech Republic.
Dear Editor,"Sorry I have to correct the production numbers of the Kranich 2 two-seater. In my documents, I have found some exact delivery numbers for the Kranich 2, which I list below.
January 1941 - 13 machines.
February 1941- 10 machines.
March 1941- 23 machines.
April 1941 - 20 machines.
May 1941- 22 machines.
June 1941- 30 machines.
July 1941- 27 machines.
August 1941- 31 machines.
September 1941- 34 machines.
October 1941 - 35 machines.
November 1941- 34 machines.
Over all:-
Up to June 30th 1942 - 546 machines.
Up to March 31st 1943 - 898 machines.
Up to August 31st 1943- 1049 machines.
Up to November 30th 1943- 1139 machines.
Up to April 30th 1944 - 1206 machines.
Up to June 30th 1944 - 1231 machines.
Up to November 30th 1944- 1312 machines.
With this, my list ends. This really has happened. After November 1944, I have no production lists for German aircraft. However, I can not believe that up to 1946, so many gliders were built.
Yours sincerely, Peter Selinger
FROM Ary Ceelen, Pieter Stockmanslaan 53, 5652 Eindhoven, NL dateds 15th April 1998.
The article in VGC News Spring 1998 by Jan Förster, classifying old gliders, looks like a proposal for a "handicap list".
In the Dutch magazine Thermiek of March 1991, I wrote an article re-the Vintage Glider Rallies, suggesting 4 classes:-"Veteran-Vintage-Classic-Oldtimer". Keep it simple! In the Oldtimer group you can place the younger "oldies". The rest may be classified by their years of construction. As an example, I enclose an official list of gliders from the Netherlands from 1939-1968. The year of construction is perhaps a good guide ?
With kind regards, Ary.Ceelen.
CW replies. The above system would work until entries to a VGC Rally have to be limited due to lack of space in the air and on the ground.
If the above system is rigidly adhered to, we might find ourselves unable to accept in a VGC Rally the OSC Wasserkuppe's Habicht and Reiher, Klaus Heyn's Musterle, Otto Grau's Rhönsperber, not to speak of Peter Philpot's Gull 3, Mike Beach's Hols der Teufel and Scud 1 and David Jones's King Kite as well as the H.28s, H.17as and Falcon 1. Presumably these classification systems have been thought up with the view of limiting entries in our rallies due to us having too many old gliders. Why cannot we proceed with flexibility as we have done in the past.? If we have too many gliders in the air, we should stop take-offs until the sky is clearer. Do not stop vintage gliders from being brought to our Rallies. To do that would lead to bad feeling which we cannot afford to have. Also, in my opinion, a rigid system adhered to in every country would be wrong, as each country has a different set of circumstances for their vintage gliders. For instance, in Britain, we still have many gliders airworthy from before 1940, and more from before 1945. In Holland, there are only two pre 1940 gliders flying...a Minimoa and a Grunau Baby 2. All the rest were built after 1945.